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Naxos-Release "The Sea Hawk"

Reviews,comments,suggestions on Korngold's discography

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Postby tjguitar » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:07 pm

I also wonder how possible/marketable a newly recorded Kings Row would be with the original tracks coming soon from FSM?
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CDs and my BOOK

Postby brendan g carroll » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:11 pm

As to CD projects from my list, I regret NONE are currently in the works, though I am always pushing these ideas when approached by CD companies and orchestras.

My book was recently available for about $50 on Ebay (I was surprised) and I am still hopeful that a 2nd edition may be possible. If that becomes a reality, I will post the news on this site!
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Re: John Williams

Postby An Anonymous Musician » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:48 pm

brendan g carroll wrote:Mr Williams is highly skilled but is a shameless plagiarist. Some examples...

Superman - (main title) is actually the most obvious steal of KINGS ROW - its arching 7ths and the fifths of its fanfare motif. The Love Theme from that film is almost note - for - note lifted from the tone poem DEATH AND TRANSFIGURATION by Richard Strauss.

The big theme from ET is lifted almost note for note from the final movement of Korngold's Suite Opus 23

Need I go on...?

I know a lot of people also frequently draw comparison between ET and the theme in the slow section of the Rondo Burleske from Mahler's Ninth. I agree with you that the theme from the Suite is pretty much identical, but would the Suite have been readily available in some form at the time of the composition of the ET score? Do you know if John Williams had taken an active interest in studying the scores of Korngold's concert works in the case the Suite wasn't available in a recording at the time? On the other hand, it could have also been he heard it in a live performance. I'm just not sure how likely it was that he knew the piece at the time. Obviously, the film scores were much easier to plagiarize because of their being enabled by the film industry's great influence to disseminate through the musical culture at a much faster rate.
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Dona Maria's Song on the original soundtrack?

Postby Sea Hawker » Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:42 am

Hi it's been a while since I've been to this site and I was thrilled to hear about the new Naxos complete soundtrack release. I noticed the Dona Maria's Song is included (with vocal) which is great. A question though, does anyone know if the original soundtrack recording included that song, whose vocal apparently was dubbed for Brenda Marshall? The Tsunami 0137 (?) CD of the original soundtrack album (at least that's the impression I got that it is) doesn't include that song. I know of no other original soundtrack CD recording available, is there?

I listened to the Dona Maria's Song clip available off the new Naxos release on their site and first impression was it's nice to at least hear the song again, with vocals and on CD but it's not the same thing as hearing what we've all heard on the movie soundtrack. The new vocal seems too operatic and not as simple and low key as the film version. I realize of course that the actual original soundtrack recording if still available won't be up to modern audio standards! Thanks for any info on this.
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Sea Hawk Song

Postby brendan g carroll » Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:45 am

The original nitrate optical track for the orchestral accompaniment to Dona Maria's song indeed survives and is archived, but sadly, Sally Sweetland's vocal for Brenda Marshall (which was recorded separately and then over-dubbed as was the usual practise then) is not preserved, except of course on the composite soundtrack of the film. I do not know if the planned complete CD release will take a dubbing from the filmtrack and splice it in or not. We'll have to wait and see.
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Postby tjguitar » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:38 pm

I do not know if the planned complete CD release will take a dubbing from the filmtrack and splice it in or not. We'll have to wait and see.


The original tracks are coming?
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Sea Hawk s/t

Postby brendan g carroll » Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:09 pm

I gather that the TSUNAMI label is about to release a double CD of all the surviving soundtrack recordings for SEA HAWK in remastered sound.
This will replace the existing Tsunami single CD that only contains a truncated selection of cues.
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re: Dona Maria's Song on the original soundtrack?

Postby Sea Hawker » Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:11 pm

Mr. Carroll, thank you for the info. I see that earlier in June you had mentioned the Tsunami complete Sea Hawk recording. Well I found out about that upcoming CD(s) as well as that Sally Sweetland was the vocalist dubbed in for Brenda Marshall, not too shabby thanks! (<:
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Postby fireatheart » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:58 am

I guess I'll burn in hell for this, but... I got my copy of Sea Hawk/Deception in September, I listened to it once, twice, three times, and... I just don't like it.

It gives me the same overall impression as the Naxos "Robin Hood": it sounds ok... but not great. Either the tempo sounds a tad slow or the playing not quite lively, or the sound is not quite crisp enough: it tastes like something is missing.

I'll stick with the Varese/Kojian conducted version.

As for the Deception (the word meaning "disappointment" in french)... that part of the set sums it up for me.

Now you may stone me.
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Postby Rathbone » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:38 pm

Dear fireatheart, I feel the same, if I heart the sea-hawk recording by naxos. My impression: it sounds not so good like Robin Hood. The tempo I also think is little bit slow.

On www.chandos.co.uk I've heard some samples from the new recording by Rumon Gamba. The sound is good an the tempo is faster.
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Postby fireatheart » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:13 pm

Oh, ok!

No stoning, then?

Well I will give the Chandos a try.

Actually, I was disappointed twice recently, on similar grounds.

The other was the Intrada "Spellbound" by Rozsa, which is a score/piece that I really adore (also under it's reworkings, such as the "Spellbound Concerto"). Well the Intrada versions just doesn't do it.

On the one hand I feel maybe I've "had enough" of both works (listened to them often enough), and on the other I truly think that these interpretations are just not good enough.

It's also possible that 2 or 3 years from now, I'll give them another try and enjoy them more then.
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Postby Michael Schlechtriem » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:33 am

No stoning of course.
I for example stick with the Gerhardt/Korngold productions and the Kojian/Korngold ones.
There are some very good recordings available of course and I would count the Gamba among them, but I am really not happy with almost all other recordings including the Naxos ones.

Excluded are of course EWK's own recordings, which are the best one could hope forever.
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Postby fireatheart » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:22 am

Yes, except they're not digital! :lol:

... but yes. :(

(For instance, the Prince and Pauper from Tsunami kicks ass!)
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Postby Peter Timoney » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:15 pm

Hiya

Surely you are not serious that the tempo of the new Chandos Sea Hawk is swifter than the Naxos. Have you heard the whole thing? Although there is much to like with Gamba, and his orchestra is obviously superior to the Moscow forces, I found myself frustrated at the slowness of significant sections of this recording, especially when the team get it so right at other sections. I also think the chandos sound, though nice and thick and very atmospheric, has lost a lot of fine details of orchestration and doesn't help the scores whiplash rhythm. I'm surprised to say this, but for all its faults I think the Naxos recording is much closer to the spirit of the film (especially in terms of tempo) than the Chandos, despite the latters greater superiority of tone.

Hey, but its nice to have different opinions without killing each other. All I will add is that when I started getting into Korngold 12 years ago I would have bitten anyones arm off to get hold of either recording.

Peter
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Postby fireatheart » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:08 pm

Peter Timoney wrote:Hey, but its nice to have different opinions without killing each other.


Yes it is! :lol:

Peter Timoney wrote:All I will add is that when I started getting into Korngold 12 years ago I would have bitten anyones arm off to get hold of either recording.
Peter


It goes without saying, but... sometimes it's best to be reminded.
Wait, I thought you wrote you would have bitten you OWN arm off!!! :evil:
No, no, that won't do!!! Go and bite your own arm off! Not someone else's!
:lol:
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